Gastt: Hi Victor, thank you for answering my questions! I would like to start by discussing your work broadly. Many of your ideas strike me as being quite conceptual. So, why is fashion a suitable medium for you to express your ideas? Why not explore fine art, filmmaking, or writing?
Victor: I am certain that I could have found another medium to develop my universe. Previously, I drew a lot and wanted to go into animation. I started 3D Modeling in high school and initially aimed for character design for video games. After graduating, I applied to various art schools in Paris and ended up in fashion design, although I knew nothing about it at the time.
Gastt: It’s interesting that you say you “ended up in fashion design”, since a lot of artists working in the medium of fashion will tell you that they always planned on pursuing a career in fashion. Are you just as willing to venture into the unknown in your creative process? How much research and planning do you typically do before executing your ideas?
Victor: Often, it's by keeping sketchbooks throughout the year that characters and silhouettes emerge recurrently. If I look back at my recent sketchbooks, there's a wealth of ideas. I am a perfectionist when it comes to details. I want the designs to be exactly as I drew them, leaving little room for the unexpected. I think I need to collaborate more with designers that have different intuitions to push my ideas further as I sometimes feel stuck.
Gastt: I think your faithfulness to your sketches definitely shines through in your work, in a positive way. And speaking of your silhouettes, many of them seem to diverge from the traditional “hourglass” silhouette that is favoured by most designers. Why do you think you frequently alter and augment the human form, as opposed to just highlighting it?
Victor: I am quite detached from my designs; I don't wear anything I create. What I love about this medium is playing with codes, pushing volumes to the extreme, creating uncanny silhouettes, and developing a language from another world.
Gastt: While it is definitely easy to appreciate your uncanny silhouettes and your more architectural pieces, I’ve also noticed that you create striking print work. Why do you think prints are also an effective way for you to express your ideas?
Victor: The illusions I develop in prints allow me to transform a body’s texture and volume effectively. It's a process I've been developing since school, which allows me to create a deeply developed look and add a lot of context with fake textures and volumes. I think that's the greatest asset I can offer.
Gastt: Considering the transformative qualities of your pieces, I’m curious to know if you intend to challenge conventional beauty standards through your work? Or would you say your work is purely personal, and not intended as a commentary on wider cultural issues?
Victor: My work is very personal, but I am aware of its broader aesthetic range. It is not intended to challenge conventional standards. I want to develop something else—a parallel story, a lore that aims to become a bigger picture that I would love to develop over time, if I have the strength and resources.
***
gasttHouse Interview Series # 3: Victor Clavelly
For the third interview of the gasttHouse Series, I spoke to rapidly-rising designer, CGI Artist, dedicated worldbuilder, and Armourer to Katy Perry, Victor Clavelly! Victor and I discussed the unique confluence of influences that inform his perspective on fashion, and how much more expansive the universe of fashion can really be.You can check out more about Victor on his Instagram. Make sure to check back every Monday for a new interview with more incredible upcoming gasttHouse Guests!***Gastt: I am definitely getting the sense that you value storytelling and worldbuilding. How important are they to you? Do you think that building a design universe and creating mythology enhances the experience of wearing your pieces?
Victor: Storytelling and worldbuilding are crucial for me, as they form the heart of my project. I would like each collection to be a new fragment of a larger story, ultimately creating a complex, self-referential world where everything connects. My ultimate dream is to create a video game.
Gastt: Would you say that the craftsmanship of your pieces is equally as important as storytelling and worldbuilding?
Victor: I love crafting things; craftsmanship is very important to me. My fashion practice makes sense because I enjoy the materiality of objects. Bringing imaginary objects to life and focusing on every detail is both the most interesting and demanding part of my work. All this while reappropriating traditional techniques. Today's technologies have opened a new dimension to craftsmanship.
Gastt: When artists like yourself embrace today’s technologies, it is easy to use words like “futuristic” to describe their work. However, how do you personally feel about your work being described as “futuristic”?
Victor: "Futuristic" and "medieval" have often been used to describe my work. Today, as I write the lore, I seek and find a language that is uniquely mine, developing a world from another universe with different laws, an oneiric myth from a world very different to ours. This kind of exercise is something I did a lot when I was younger; I kept sketchbooks for years, developing a universe. It was something I loved doing—getting lost in reverie and maintaining a connection with a fantasy dimension. I'm glad to still have the space to do this on another scale and make it my profession. I do agree with this characterisation of my work to an extent, but my goal is to create something entirely unique and not bound by typical descriptors.
Gastt: Are you also interested in responding to the present moment through your work, or do you prefer to present a vision of the future? Or maybe neither?
Victor: While I am not necessarily responding to the present moment, I aim to present a vision that feels timeless, combining elements of nostalgia and future imaginings.
***
Gastt: In addition to drawing aesthetic inspiration from technology, fashion is also in conversation with it in many other ways. For example, fashion is now frequently consumed and experienced digitally, and wider discussions about it take place on social media platforms. Many of these discussions pertain to the “exclusiveness” of the fashion industry. Given that you are an independent creative who has followed an interesting path into fashion design, I am eager to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you think that technology has made fashion more accessible?
Victor: Technology has made many fields accessible, including fashion and craftsmanship. It has democratised and made them financially and technically accessible. Any software is now easy to use and available. I learned 3D modeling on my own in high school, and as a CGI artist, I have been making a living for five years, which allows me to finance my collections. It's incredible what can be achieved with a computer nowadays.
Gastt: When you are relying on these digital tools to conceptualise your pieces and ideas, do you find that you ever have to make compromises in the design process in order to translate them to the physical world? How do you ensure that the craftsmanship and construction of your physical pieces are as well-executed as their digital concepts?
Victor: There are so many ways to use these tools and conceptualise pieces. I do 3D Modeling to earn a living, so I have a good command of certain modeling software. It's similar to industrial design; today, with 3D Printing, if your piece is well-designed and modeled, it comes out as if from a factory, with everything fitting perfectly and no errors or rework needed. I used to be very crafty back in art school, but computers opened a third eye. I am now a math nerd kind of lol.
Gastt: Considering the fact that you utilise digital tools as a part of your development process, I would like to hear your thoughts on Virtual Reality ( VR ) and virtual spaces, and the roles they can play in the fashion experience. Do you see VR as a tool to potentially enhance the experience of your work, or would it compromise too many of the tactile and tangible elements of your work?
Victor: VR doesn't excite me much; I already spend too much time in front of the computer. I'd rather it serve the physical world.
Gastt: Generally speaking, are there any technological developments on the horizon that you’re particularly excited about?
Victor: No.
Gastt: Do you think the fusion of fashion with technology will lead to ethical, social, or environmental concerns in the future?
Victor: This is the most important challenge we face, and we must reinvent our way of producing and consuming fashion. Personally, I would love to create only unique, artisanal pieces and focus on producing imagery rather than getting caught up in the fashion week game. I believe in reinventing the codes of slow fashion that exist outside of trends and time, but unfortunately, it might not survive long in today's industry.
This is why I create fashion; I want to design unique pieces, constantly exploring the medium through technology, dreaming, and inspiring on a micro scale, without the constraints of expansion and capitalisation. If our generation of designers can assert these new convictions, then the industry can change.
Gastt: In recent years, there has also been a lot of discourse regarding the impact of AI on society, particularly regarding its potential impact on creative industries. Do you see AI as merely a tool to enhance the creative process, or as a fundamental part of the future of art? Or neither?
Victor: AI allows the creation of a new category of images; it’s a new research system. I think it will change a lot of things. I already see it in CGI—how AI becomes a tool for everything: look dev, shading, rendering, compositing…
Gastt: While we’re on the topic of the future, can you share some of your personal ambitions going forward?
Victor: For now, I try to focus on the moment and figure out how to make a living from it. I just hope to find freedom, have the resources and time to create anything I imagine. Fashion isn't mandatory for this.
***
Gastt: Thank you so much again for giving us a window into your creative process and vision. I would like to end by asking a quick question related to your passion for video games. If you could be the artistic director of any video game or video game franchise, which one would it be and why?
Victor: My dream is to develop a game with FromSoftware, make some art direction or just design characters and mobs.
***
Graphic Design and Interview Conducted by gastt Fashion / @_gastt .
Media Credits:
2023 Collection ‘LES AMNÉSIQUES’:
Photography - @ leopenven .
Styling - @ famillefarez and @ heloisebcht .
Production - @ heloisebcht .
Casting by @ ht.casting , @ boyfall.out .
MUA - @ aphrod_isis .
Hair Stylist - @ lxna_mua .
Models:
@ segozaurrr .
@ zanythenanny .
@ lomeeb .
@ rebbushka .
@ so.dono.g .
@ mamiiwataa .
@ _trustfall .
@ anna_elr .
Team:
@ l.am.nobodyy .
@ _alicenael_ .
@ daniel.cheruzel .
@ louiseeugeniep .
@ so.dono.g .
PR - @ pr.you.consulting .
Backstage - @ zoeemercier - @ maureenllr .
__________
2022 Collection ‘LE JUGEMENT DU PONTIFE’:
Images and Styling: @ zoeemercier @ heloisebcht @ famillefarez @ fiasco.club .
Photography: @ leopenven .
Backstage: @ sarahclavelly .
CGI + Integration: @ itsbenebene .
Makeup: @ zoe.derks .
Hair: @ natsumiebiko .
Shoes @ pyrnarchives .
Models:
@ yousnao .
@ so.dono.g .
@ yolitalitchi .
@ verafatale .
@ lomeeb .
@ anna_elr .
Images and Media via @ victorclavelly .
Gastt: Hello Loris and Simone, thank you both for answering my questions! I’d like to start with the basics. So, you established SUNNEI in 2014, initially with a focus on Menswear. I’m curious to know if your creative process has evolved over time, as you have expanded and introduced new elements to SUNNEI?
SUNNEI: What is at the core of SUNNEI today has been its essence since day one. The brand’s spirit, values, and aesthetic vision have remained unchanged over the years. Naturally, some things have evolved, which we believe is natural since neither we nor the world are the same as when the brand was founded 10 years ago.
Gastt: In addition to introducing Womenswear, since 2014 you have also explored Homeware, Photography, and community-based projects like RADIO SUNNEI, amongst other things. Why have you chosen to take a multidisciplinary approach when creating for SUNNEI?
SUNNEI: Even though it’s true that SUNNEI started as a “menswear label,” our idea has always been that this category would be just a starting point. After expanding into footwear, jewelry, accessories, and womenswear, we experimented beyond fashion, seeing it as just one of the many areas where SUNNEI could exist. We like the idea that we could create a SUNNEI version of anything. What makes SUNNEI “SUNNEI” is so well-defined that one would recognize the brand in any context.
As we transition from one industry to another, we also undertake projects that cross different media. We don’t see the physical and digital realms as competing but rather as complementary, which is how we approach them. We believe in the importance of adapting to each platform to maximize the result.
SUNNEI took its first step on Instagram in 2014, when almost no other brand was using it, but we realized its potential as a powerful amplifier. Soon after, people from different parts of the world and various age groups started gathering around the brand. What most members of our community share is that they are creatives: in music, design, art, cuisine, and many other industries. It comes naturally to us to involve them in our projects. They are passionate about the brand and eager to “be part of it,” so it just makes sense.
Gastt: I sense that community and collaboration are core components of SUNNEI for you. Why have you both chosen to work together as creative collaborators, as opposed to separately as individuals? What makes you compatible as creative collaborators?
SUNNEI: Our brand's characteristics reflect a blend of our cultural backgrounds — its irony and boldness from Simone's Southern Italian roots, and its elegant simplicity from Loris' French heritage. SUNNEI wouldn’t be the same without these two sides. While it’s true that Simone focuses more on communication and Loris on design, any major decision comes from both of us and is often the outcome of two different points of view shaped by our discussions.
Of course, it’s not always easy, but SUNNEI is neither Loris nor Simone; it’s what emerges from the encounter of the two of us.
Gastt: As important as collaboration is to SUNNEI internally, you have also notably collaborated with various external brands. For example, you collaborated with rug design company cc-tapis for Autumn / Winter 2024, and you also have an upcoming footwear collaboration with Camper set to debut on June 17. What qualities do you look for when considering potential external collaborators?
SUNNEI: We are not very interested in collaborations seen as “strategic moves”; there are already too many of these in the market. We believe in starting a joint venture when there’s more substance behind it.
In the case of the collaboration with the design label cc-tapis, with whom we created the gigantic rug for our latest show, the project came after several years of friendship with the people behind the brand and mutual respect for each other’s companies. Both SUNNEI and cc-tapis can probably be considered innovators in our industries, sharing the same value for high quality.
Gastt: And in an industry populated with many innovative footwear brands, why are Camper the best partners to collaborate with?
SUNNEI: The collaboration with Camper also stemmed from a long-time relationship. Our connection with Achilles Ion Gabriel dates back to when he was not even their creative director, and we’ve always appreciated the brand’s free-spiritedness and the fact that, like us, they know it’s not always necessary to take yourself extremely seriously. That’s why we knew there was potential to experiment with out-of-the-box ideas with them. The SUNNEI x Camper footwear style we developed perfectly serves this purpose.
***
gasttHouse Interview Series # 2: SUNNEI’s Loris Messina and Simone Rizzo.
For the second interview of the gasttHouse series, SUNNEI’s creative directors Loris and Simone generously answered many of our burning questions. For example: How do they manage to make their runway shows go viral every season, seemingly effortlessly? Why does venturing outside of fashion make so much sense for a “fashion brand”? Where’s Angelino? You can check out more about SUNNEI on their website, or of course on their Instagram. While you're at it, why not check out Loris' and Simone's Instagrams 🌞Make sure to check back every Monday for a new interview with more incredible upcoming gasttHouse Guests!***Gastt: As you mentioned earlier, SUNNEI has a very defined aesthetic vision, and distinct design language. After reflecting on the work you have done over the past decade, I noticed that you prefer to refine and build on existing ideas of yours over time, rather than flooding the market with brand new pieces that are responsive to trends every season. Why do you take this approach?
SUNNEI: In this industry’s perpetual cycle, season after season, our goal is to improve what already exists. Each collection is not completely different from the previous one; it's an upgrade — similar to how an iPhone gets better with every new system update. We never follow trends; we believe in the idea of an ever-expanding wardrobe where our community can mix and match items from different collections in endless ways and for various occasions.
We take this approach because we don’t think that everything we did a few months ago should be discarded just for the sake of having “something new.”
Gastt: Since you’re always in the process of improving and augmenting your ideas, how open are you to embracing unexpected or unplanned results? Or do you prefer to stick to a plan?
SUNNEI: Our research is continuous; we are always open to inspiration and bring our ideas to the table when the right opportunity arises. It’s the same with the concepts behind our shows — we have many ideas already, and each season we decide which ones to use.
Gastt: Do you think that your continuous research process stems from perfectionism in any way?
SUNNEI: We want our pieces to be durable, which is why we prioritize quality and manufacturing. It’s important to us that each collection is the best we have presented so far, while knowing that the next one will be even better.
Gastt: It’s refreshing to know that you value the craftsmanship and quality of your pieces as much as you value the sense of “Irony” and “Boldness” that define SUNNEI. In the current economic climate, many brands are pushed to compromise the quality of their manufacturing process in order to maximise their profits. I’m curious to know - how do you manage to find a balance between freely expressing yourself in your work, and confronting the commercial pressures of the fashion industry?
SUNNEI: Our collections mix items that reflect both needs. On the one hand, we enjoy exploring categories of daily-use products, such as denim, which for us has become a special project named “BELLI DENTRO,” meaning “beautiful inside” because all of our denim features printed stripes on the interior. The same goes for our “Do What You Want” Collection, which represents our pursuit of “the perfect basics.” This is our carry-over capsule collection of high-quality T-shirts with what we consider to be the ideal fit.
On the other hand, we can’t help but experiment with new techniques, materials, and silhouettes, which is what you see on our runways.
Gastt: Speaking of experimentation, are there things unrelated to fashion that influence your work?
SUNNEI: We are inspired by what’s around us: the people we interact with, the places we visit, the things we do. While others in the industry may find inspiration in abstract philosophical concepts, for us, it’s the opposite.
An example is the presence of SUNNEI Objects, a collection that includes items of very disparate nature, from vinyl records to puzzles, pillows, and Murano glasses. These items represent the “SUNNEIzation” of what we use in our daily lives. We realized that the ritual of dressing accounts for only 1% of our day, and we wanted to accompany our community throughout their entire day.
Radio SUNNEI follows the same concept: At our office, we are all very interested in music and have specific tastes, so we wanted to give like-minded people the chance to connect and enjoy a visual and acoustic background that’s on 24/7.
Precisely because we work with what we experience firsthand, Angelino—our dog—was the inspiration behind the introduction of a dogwear line. In the FW22 collection, we dedicated a print to Angelino, depicting a crowd among which you are called to spot a dog, like in “Where’s Waldo?”. The print is called "Where’s Angelino?"—a question that comes up several times a day in the team’s WhatsApp chat when we don’t know where he has hidden among the 1000 square meters of our headquarters.
***
Gastt: Previously, you mentioned SUNNEI’s early adoption of Instagram back in 2014. This was obviously very prescient, since SUNNEI has subsequently become well-known for its digital presence and consistent virality on social media. Considering that virality has become a goal for basically every brand in 2024, how do you find the balance between provoking thought and creating conversation around SUNNEI, while remaining true to SUNNEI’s core values and brand identity?
SUNNEI: If you read the comments below SUNNEI videos and photos that went viral, you’ll often find, “why didn’t I think of this?”. We believe that’s part of the secret behind them: our aim is to create engaging content from the simplest ideas. The same goes for our shows — their uniqueness doesn’t come from the huge productions typical of bigger brands, but from finding straightforward ways to convey our vision of the contemporary. For every show, we play with the mechanisms of the industry, challenging traditional fashion show norms and questioning immutable roles and processes. It's always about breaking down walls to explore unexpected types of interactions. We create a 360-degree experience where location, looks, models, and sound come together to make a lasting impression.
This season [ Autumn / Winter 2024 ], we focused on the models. Who ever cares about what they think? This time, we gave their reflections some space by using them as the soundtrack of the show.
We are often asked if our approach is to “provoke” others, but no, we rarely look at what others do. We act based on what makes the most sense for us, and if that results in being “provocative” to someone, that’s beyond our control. We just think that with a show lasting 15 minutes, the spotlight is on us, and we want to use it to say something meaningful with both provocation and light-heartedness.
Gastt: There seems to be a pervading sense of fun and irreverence that distinguishes SUNNEI as a brand, as well as your aesthetic vision. How important are irony and humour in your work, overall?
SUNNEI: They are important, but it’s always subtle. We don’t aim to be fun. It’s about being colorful on the outside and having a pinch of edginess on the inside. We believe in this balance. Not taking yourself seriously all the time is very important. For example, the SUNNEI Objects line includes a series of decorative items made from Murano glass shaped like sex toys.
Gastt: While there are definitely many lighthearted ways you can approach your work for SUNNEI, I imagine that building and managing any brand as successful as SUNNEI would also entail several responsibilities. One of the main responsibilities of every brand in 2024 is to consider the sustainability and impact of their practices. Could you please describe the importance of sustainability to you? How do you implement sustainable practices in your work for SUNNEI?
SUNNEI: We believe in making an effort to be as minimally impactful as possible. For example, we started a project called “SUNNEI Selecta,” a sustainable initiative aimed at reducing waste by giving new life to our previous stock. The idea for SUNNEI Selecta arose from realizing how many DMs we receive daily with photos of items from previous seasons and inquiries about their availability. This led us to question the traditional industry practice of storing leftover collections in warehouses, where they are often forgotten. After a successful debut in Milan, SUNNEI Selecta is now embarking on a global journey, with stops in Berlin and Amsterdam already.
***
Gastt: Thank you both so much again for answering my questions, and for sharing your perspectives on how you successfully navigate various creative fields. I would like to end by asking: if you could change one thing about the fashion industry in 2024, what would it be?
SUNNEI: Be less scared of others’ reactions and just do what makes sense for you and your brand, without following what others have told you is the “right way to do it.”
***
Graphic Design and Interview Conducted by gastt / @gastt_fashion.
Special Thanks to Rebecca Baldanzini.
Media Credits:
Original Image for Portrait of Loris and Simone via SUNNEI / Loris Messina / Simone Rizzo.
AW24, SS24, AW23, AW22 Runway Show Videos via SUNNEI.
SS23 Runway Show Video Clips by gastt Fashion.
Product Images via SUNNEI / Loris Messina.
Gastt: Thank you for speaking to me Simon! To start, I would like to ask you about printmaking. Obviously, printmaking is an important part of what you do. Why is printmaking an appealing medium for you to express yourself in, as opposed to something like embroidery, or beadwork?
Simon: I like to be quite immediate with my work. I enjoy [a] haphazard process, and I also like mistakes. Printmaking can be precise, but it does allow for speed and the possibility of errors that can lead me onto a new path.. Other forms of textile design need a lot more preparation and exactness. I like immediate results. I’m drawn to strong, graphic imagery, and printmaking lends itself to this.
Gastt: Why do you think you were initially drawn to printmaking? Has its appeal changed over time for you?
Simon: I was inspired by Jamie Reid’s work for the Sex Pistols in the ‘70s, graphic and strong with a message. I enjoy the combination of image, text, and abstract mark making that I saw in punk fanzines. I started by making my own T-shirts. This led me to linocut printmaking, collage, iron-on transfers, and creating clothing with a point of view. After going to art school and being introduced to all forms of printmaking, I realized it is where I feel most comfortable.
Gastt: Have you always had a clearly-defined creative vision for your work?
Simon: I feel that I have.
Gastt: Why do you think this is?
Simon: When I was 10 years old, Punk Rock emerged. I was very attracted to the attitude, the music, the clothes, the fuck everything up attitude. I was especially inspired by the women of Punk: The Slits, The Raincoats, Poly Styrene, Siouxsie, Soo Catwoman, Debbie Juvenile, Helen of Troy, and Jordan. I loved their strength, their strong image, and ownership of sexuality. I began to understand the power of clothing in image. It inspired me, it still does today. The sense of making people feel uncomfortable was a huge draw for me. I have always wanted my work to create an emotion, good or bad. It came to me in 1977 and it’s still what excites me and makes me create.
Gastt: Considering your responsiveness to the first wave of Punk, do you prefer to take a more free-form, or “Punk” approach when developing and creating your prints? Or do you prefer to take a more conceptual approach?
Simon: I must have a narrative for my work. I develop a story in my head to begin with. An idea from something historical, may be a book or a film, a person I happen to see in the street. I always must have a person in mind when I build a design story. I go back to things time and time again. There are certain things I am obsessed with. Tollund Man for example, and the 1949 movie, ‘The Secret Garden’. The movie is shot in black and white, and transitions to color when the garden comes back to life. That moment has always stuck with me and informed the ‘FADE’ section of my work. So, my narratives are with me forever. I build upon them and continue to develop. I think because I know them so well I can turn to something improvised quite easily and with very limited resources.
Gastt: Why do you think certain narratives stay with you?
Simon: Things that have had a strong emotional effect on me tend to stay with me. It could be something that truly inspired me, made me think differently, or just stuck in my head. These things I’ve kind of carried along with me as my personal library. I know them well. They are not trend driven or disposable. I go back to them time and time again. It’s somewhat the opposite of what we are meant to do in fashion I suppose.
Gastt: Speaking of things that are “trend-driven” and “disposable”, I’m curious to ask about your stance on issues like sustainability. Could you please describe the importance of sustainability to you?
Simon: My goal has always been progress, not perfection. Any step forward in working with cleaner, safer, more ethical materials in a cleaner, more ethical way is a good thing. It’s why I started integrating sustainability into every class when I was leading a fashion school. I believe everyone must be presented with the information and go out into the world and be the change makers. We all must move in this direction.
In my own work I strive to be as sustainable as I can. I have eliminated many toxic chemicals and processes. I do not mass produce anything. I reuse everything. I work on worn clothing. I strive to [take] garments out of the land fill line and give them a second life. My goal is to offer people an alternative, [rather] than constant shopping.
Gastt: We all know that ‘Sustainability’ is frequently co-opted and used as a marketing buzzword by corporations. However, have you always considered the sustainability of your creative process and practices?
Simon: I heard the term sustainability when I moved to California in 1996. My work had always involved working with existing clothing. I understood that this in itself was a way to be more sustainable. I decided to get myself educated in all things sustainable and do my best to apply the concepts to my work. I think I’m more about Degrowth these days.
Gastt: Is this why you frequently incorporate second hand and preowned pieces into your work?
Simon: Again, it started with Punk. There were no ‘punk’ clothes to begin with. Plus, I was 10 years old, poor, and lived in a field. I couldn’t get to London even if I wanted to. It was about taking what I had, adding things I could find, and modifying to build the look. I became obsessed with garments, surplus military uniforms, my Grandfather’s shooting suits. I found the inside as important as the outside and the concept of the person who wore it. The situations, the history.
These days I strongly believe there are enough garments in the world. I have no interest in producing anything new. “Worn-Wear Rehab to Second Life” is my mantra.
***
gasttHouse Interview Series # 1: Simon Ungless
For the first interview of my new weekly Interview series “gasttHouse”, I had the privilege of speaking with someone who is an original Alexander McQueen collaborator, an Atelier Jolie Artist in Residence, a Designer, a Printmaker, and so much more — the living legend Simon Ungless.Simon graciously answered many of my questions about his career and creative process, spanning from his early collaborations with Lee McQueen in the ‘90s, to his more recent work for Angelina Jolie’s ‘Atelier Jolie’ project. You can check out his work on his personal Instagram , and the When Simon Met Ralph Instagram.Make sure to check back every Monday for a new interview with more incredible upcoming gasttHouse Guests!***
Gastt: Shifting gears slightly - in addition to your experience as a designer and printmaker, you have also worked as an educator. For example, you started working at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco in July 1996, and were the Executive Director of Fashion until May 2022. What are some key things you consider to be important for emerging designers / students to learn?
Simon: Be able to communicate your ideas visually. For most this means having the ability to sketch. Understand pattern-making, draping and construction, know how things are made. Know fabrics, know process. Try your clothes on. Can you move? Have a concept, have a point of view, know who you are as a designer.
Gastt: The fashion industry has undergone significant changes since 1996. Do you think that fashion students graduating in 2024 are adequately prepared for the current reality of the fashion industry?
Simon: They are not. Education is fucked. The schools are fucked. They keep having to have fashion shows so they get more new students. It’s an outdated system that does not benefit the designers. The skill set needed to build your own graduation collection is not needed to be forced on every person going to fashion school. There are so many other pathways for designers to take that require a more diverse skill set.
Job functions have changed and job opportunities have reduced. Schools just want more and more students so they make more and more money. It’s why I left education. I was constantly in conflict as I wanted change but [was] never supported to do it.
Gastt: How do you think current fashion education programmes could be improved, and could more effectively prepare students for the realities of the fashion industry today?
Simon: Hire people who have actually worked and continue to work in the industry to lead and teach. Work closely with industry on changes and needs, change curriculum accordingly. Be realistic about how many people need to go into fashion education as a career choice and enroll students accordingly. These are all things that are way too hard for most schools to do as it goes against their business needs.
Gastt: You mentioned that you had a lack of support in some areas of your role as an educator. What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced as an educator? How did you overcome them?
Simon: In terms of being an educator I always had the thought that I was swimming upstream, and that upstream swimming was making me stronger. Then one day I woke up and I thought fuck it. I’m out and I left my job. The act of quitting was the most powerful overcoming I ever did.
Gastt: And as a printmaker?
Simon: As a printmaker I think my biggest challenge was thinking I had to be like everyone else, or at least compete, to be more commercial in order to be successful. Going back to school for the MA Fashion at Central Saint Martins after two years in the industry made me realize I’m much better off just doing what I want to do. Working in the industry can often mean compromising one’s aesthetic or morality. I decided long ago to not do either. I’ve not gotten to do a lot of things as I simply did not believe in the brand or the project.
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Gastt: It seems like you have stayed true to your values in a high-pressure industry, but you have also managed to stay booked and busy. Amongst other things, you’re currently an artist in residence at Atelier Jolie, which is a creative collective and space that was established by Angelina Jolie. Why was this partnership appealing to you at this time?
Simon: It feels like family. A group of different, creative people from varying fields with a common goal of doing things differently. It feels very fresh, exciting, ever-changing but ultimately creative and generous.
Gastt: So working at Atelier Jolie has been an enjoyable experience for you so far?
Simon: Completely enjoyable. I believe in the project, the outcomes and the people. I have very much enjoyed the people who came to meet me either one on one or through workshops. It’s building a community for me. I don’t know another place that has sold my clothes where the customers message me, extremely excited with their purchase. To me, Atelier Jolie means community, not units sold.
Gastt: Considering the sense of community you experience there, do you see Atelier Jolie’s business model as the ideal business model of the future, or more as a singular project responsive to the current moment? Or neither?
Simon: I truly believe it needs to be the business model of the future, but it is a very big mind set change for most people. In essence it means degrowth. To degrowth for many is to die. For me, it means we all get to live, prosper, and have fun.
Gastt: Do you think Atelier Jolie offers a solution to sustainability issues in the fashion industry, or does its value lie elsewhere?
Simon: I think it can offer a choice, an understanding, a different pathway. Importantly it is open to all. There are no restrictions due to cost. My workshops are affordable and accessible to all. It has a very generous and democratic spirit. And at the same time, we are all learning.
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Gastt: Another one of your more recent projects was your contribution to the ‘REBEL’ exhibition at the Design Museum in London last year. How did you get involved with it?
Simon: 2023 was the 30 year anniversary of NEWGEN. In 1993, Lee McQueen was part of the first group of designers to be supported by NEWGEN to present a collection in London Fashion week. I lived and worked with Lee. We created the 13 piece Taxi Driver collection together. We lost the 13 pieces outside of a nightclub a few days after the showroom at the Ritz Hotel closed. Sarah Burton / Alexander McQueen asked me to consult on reimagining the collection and the process for the ‘REBEL’ Exhibit. I went to London [in] March of ‘23 to work at McQueen. They created a studio for me to work in. I had access to the incredible archive and truly amazing team. I spent a week making a room of images, objects, textiles, and emotions. I didn’t attempt to remake any specific garments. I made things using the same techniques, same materials, same energy, but seen through my eyes and fingers 30 years later.
Gastt: Why did you choose to be involved when asked?
Simon: My beginnings with Lee are the most important to me. The work we did together was spontaneous, exciting, innovative, and not done for commercial gain. We created the things we wanted; the things we knew had to be made. It was very personal. I wanted to revisit that work. Atelier Jolie reminds me so much of that time. I also adore Sarah Burton, and when Sarah asks, I usually comply.
Gastt: Was reflecting on your past work and collaborations with Lee McQueen an emotional experience? Or cathartic?
Simon: Deeply, deeply emotional. There were many things I never dealt with. Working on this project gave me the opportunity to address those things. At times it felt like Lee was with me. Like we were draping together. Pinning one piece of lace into a dress is something that everyone knows I do not have the skill set for but it happened. I was stood there doing it but it wasn’t me. Cathartic in the way that I could finally let McQueen go. The brand I mean, not Lee.
Gastt: How did you feel about the final presentation?
Simon: They built a little version of our house in Tooting where we made the collection. I liked it. It could have been more raw, but there is only so far to go when a museum and the public are concerned. I heard from so many people who attended. They liked it. They felt inspired. For me that’s all that matters.
Gastt: I was able to attend, and I’m happy to say that I definitely liked it, and I definitely felt inspired! After reflecting on your past experiences and collaborations with Lee McQueen (especially after working on the exhibition), how do you think the legacy of your work with him has lived on?
Simon: I worked with Lee on projects at St Martins and on the collections through Dante. I got to work with him while he changed fashion, while he changed the way people feel about fashion. Many of those early shows have become fashion legends. Lee always knew what to do with my work. Some of the garments are super simple, but with the print or textile treatment they are next level. They’ve been written about, put in books. There are currently three major exhibitions open with my work with Lee, The MET, the de Young in SF, and The Frist in Nashville. Those pieces have built my legacy. They seem to live on.
Gastt: How (or where) do you see your shared legacy manifesting today?
Simon: There seems to be a lot of interest in our work together right now. I’m seeing it pop up as obvious inspiration in other brands' collections. I’ve seen some of it being revisited in pre-collections at McQueen. It’s very much part of the archive and DNA of McQueen. It clearly is part of the current re-interest in my own work.
Gastt: I really appreciate your vulnerability, and your honest reflections on your life and work. Maybe I could also ask you to please share a fun anecdote or memory of your time working with Lee McQueen?
Simon: Lee would spend hours making a beautiful garment, may be a frock coat, a dress, or suit jacket, and give it to me and say “can you just fuck this up a bit for me”… I always think…let’s just fuck this up a bit.
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Gastt: You have continued to contribute to the Alexander McQueen brand, working on collections such as SS24 Menswear. I’m curious to know: how collaborative were these experiences?
Simon: Working with Sarah Burton is truly collaborative. From concept through to final fabric and use.
Gastt: How do you think Sarah Burton has honored the vision of Lee McQueen through her work as creative director of Alexander McQueen?
Simon: Most definitely. Lee created the brand. Sarah built it into a powerhouse.
Gastt: You mentioned earlier that working on the ‘REBEL’ Exhibition helped you to let go of Alexander McQueen as a brand. How do you feel about the future of the Alexander McQueen brand following Sarah Burton’s departure?
Simon: Honestly, I have no feeling about the AM brand moving forward. To me it’s just another brand. Obviously it can’t be the McQueen that was Lee.
Gastt: I have to ask - how did you feel about the latest McQueen show with Seán McGirr serving as creative director?
Simon: In terms of reaction it felt very similar to the reaction Lee received in the early years. I hadn’t seen such awful things written about a collection since Nihilism and Highland Rape. In terms of the clothes, I didn’t like much on the runway, but now I’m seeing them presented and worn differently, I think there are some great pieces. I’m looking forward to seeing where he takes it.
Gastt: Seán McGirr’s references to the Alexander McQueen archive were highly dissected and commented upon after his debut collection was presented. In your opinion, should fashion ideally reflect on the past, respond to the present moment, or look to the future?
Simon: It must reflect all three. One must know the past and be fully aware of the current moment if you want to build a pathway to the future.
Gastt: How valuable are nostalgia and referencing the past in fashion?
Simon: Valuable to know but not valuable to show. Nobody needs a history lesson.
Gastt: Speaking of this, are there any current or emerging trends in fashion today that you consider to be promising?
Simon: I’ve never been one for trend[s], but I’m very interested in a few newer designers coming along. They seem to all want to do things differently, have very clear and solid aesthetics, and [are] super super skilled at designing and making. Paolo Carzana, Niccolò Pasqualetti, TORISHÉJU, Feben, and Dilara [Findikoglu] are all giving me hope.
Gastt: You do also have your own personal creative projects that you’re presently working on. For example, When Simon Met Ralph, and Blackened. What are some of the core ideas you want to explore through your own design projects?
Simon: Basically, I just want to keep working with worn and used items in a way to make them desirable again. I’m working with wooden objects now, early-stage development. Many people have issues with second-hand things, clothing, and home objects. My role is now about helping people shift away from that problem.
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Gastt: Thank you so much again for your time, and for sharing so much with me about your life and career. I’d like to end on a quick question. Can you please recommend a Visual Artist and / or Musician whose work you’re enjoying at the moment?
Simon: My visual artists of choice are Marcel Duchamp, Max Ernst, Man Ray, Mark Rothko. Musicians change daily.
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Interview Conducted by gastt.
Layout and Graphic Design by gastt.
Image 1 by Robert Fairer.
Additional Images via Simon Ungless, and gastt.